Ideology ≠ Personhood

[NOPROBLEM]

Your logic is that because you are a Muslim, it is a personal insult to you if I criticize something you believe in (allah). If that was a legitimate argument then I would counter with; what allows your belief trump my belief? My belief is in reality and the freedom to express that reality via freedom of speech. If my freedom of speech is an attack on your ideology, then one cannot over rule the other. However, with that logic your ideology prevents my ideology from existing and mine does not prevent yours from existing. Which would, again following the logic that an attack on an ideology is an attack on a person (it isn't) then you requirement of me to not say anything negative toward allah is the same as an attack on me personally, and in fact an even larger attack because you are essentially exercising cloture on my ideology whilst my stance does nothing of the sort to yours. That is why your argument is moot and in fact even further damaging to your case.
Also, if you actually open up the resolved abuse reports section and look at the "Reported by NOPROBLEM" posts, you will find no censorship of ideology, all I do is prevent personal attacks, not just censor things I don't agree with, (something you might need to look in the mirror about). Which by the way I have the right to report your post insulting my mother because that is a personal attack, which it appears you haven't yet wrapped your head around.
http://daemonsring.com/forum/forumdisplay.php/42-Resolved-Abuse-Reports

 

[Damage]

You know im a moslim but still you say fuck allah wich is just insulting me same as fuck atheïsts or your mams a ho but than saving yeah freedom of speech you also said ad homimen but what you did wasn't even ad homimen all your arguments look nice but are bs i only see alot of text full of bs.
I'll just stop looking from now on.
Really dissapointed in you

 

[NOPROBLEM]

You know im a moslim but still you say fuck allah wich is just insulting me same as fuck atheïsts or your mams a ho but than saving yeah freedom of speech you also said ad homimen but what you did wasn't even ad homimen all your arguments look nice but are bs.
I'll just stop looking from now on.
Really dissapointed in you

Ok. So you honestly believe that your ideology is you. Then that makes my ideology literally me. So your ideology is an insult to mine (to the degree that yours would prevent mine from existing) and because you think ideologies are the same as people, you are insulting me by existing.
This might be one of the most idiotic trains of logic I've ever come across. That's saying something in a world where republicans exist.

 

[Damage]

Ok. So you honestly believe that your ideology is you. Then that makes my ideology literally me. So your ideology is an insult to mine (to the degree that yours would prevent mine from existing) and because you think ideologies are the same as people, you are insulting me by existing.
This might be one of the most idiotic trains of logic I've ever come across.

By knowing im a moslim yet still choose for those 2 provoking words is just insulting to me and your not dumb you know that but what ever your right as if i care about winning an discussion on the internet not a single parasite drop the bijgest lyrical bombs and make me look like a idiot i wont respond gogogo
Still very dissapointed..

 

[NOPROBLEM]

By knowing im a moslim yet still choose for those 2 provoking words is just insulting to me and your not dumb you know that but what ever your right as if i care about winning an discussion on the internet not a single parasite drop the bijgest bomba and make me look like a Dick i wont respond gogogo

You want people to censor their beliefs if they are conflicting to yours? Then (AGAIN, by that flawed logic) you cant even bring up allah at all around me for it conflicts with my world view. You don't get to choose what other people can believe or say and taking offense at another ideologies belief that does not align with yours is foolish.

 

[SKNeoDio]

Please calm yourselves.

Regardless of whatever beliefs, no one's religion or its 'Gods' should be insulted.

 

[NOPROBLEM]

Please calm yourselves.

Regardless of whatever beliefs, no one's religion or its 'Gods' should be insulted.

What if those "god(s)" or the text they're in insults and condemns those who aren't adherents to the faith to jahannam (hell) for an eternity of pain and suffering for not believing in it? I feel like that is a far greater insult than saying fuck your god. Which by the way, I support the right to say, on both accounts. Getting offended over an ideology that you don't believe in is retarded.

 

[SKNeoDio]

What if those "god(s)" or the text they're in insults and condemns those who aren't adherents to the faith to jahannam (hell) for an eternity of pain and suffering for not believing in it? I feel like that is a far greater insult than saying fuck your god. Which by the way, I support the right to say, on both accounts. Getting offended over an ideology that you don't believe in is retarded.

That's not the point here.

If these "Gods", or religious books, condemn us to hell, that's none of our business from the moment that we do not follow that religion, it's their religion, not ours; we have the freedom of choice to ignore them.

It's like walking down the street and hearing someone insulting society, that person is not directly insulting you, but you may still feel offended; although that was not directed specifically towards you, you have a choice.

Most people say "Thank God", while I say "Thank my Parents", would I be offended if anyone insulted my family? Obviously I would.

The point here is that, on these forums, every religion, sexual preference, race, etc.., is to be respected. No exceptions, your argument is irrelevant from the moment that no one even quoted any religious book on this topic - therefore, stop insulting other people's beliefs, please.

 

[NOPROBLEM]

That's not the point here.

But that's exactly the point, why should the doctrine of a "faith" which disrespects me, require my respect of it?
Nazis believe Jews are inferior, it isn't my business? I'm not a jew, in fact I'd be quite welcome in the Nazi party. Fuck Nazis.
Allah says I'm going to burn for eternity, fuck allah.

This is the heart of the problem of today's social acceptance movements, people are so concerned with not offending others that they ignore the key principles of dogma that is inherently offensive to others in of itself.

 

[Bukkake Crew]

This is the heart of the problem of today's social acceptance movements, people are so concerned with not offending others that they ignore the key principles of dogma that is inherently offensive to others in of itself.

qft

 

[Mitsurugi]

[glow="lime"]That title was quite annoying.
I understand your point NP, but considering what you've said in this thread, I have the feeling you haven't embraced a faith before.
When one does, in most of them you adopt a moral set that changes one's point of view about life, therefore, when you say that religion = ideology, you're partially right, which explains why you don't understand how Muslims or any other religion feels offended by your words either being making it sound like a waste of time/nonsense or even doubt the essence of their faith as you once did with somebody who being gay was also Catholic. What would you say to me if I told you I adopted Classical Dheism 10 years ago?[/glow]

 

[SKNeoDio]

You don't need to respect any religion, old friend. However, as a member of this community, as a staff member, and according to our rules, you shouldn't make other members feel uncomfortable by insulting their personal choices.

Besides, this matter falls under rule #2; and by analogy, under rule #3 of our Rules of Conduct.

There is no argument against breaking our rules; with freedom of speech, comes respect and responsibility.

 

[NOPROBLEM]

[glow="lime"]That title was quite annoying.
I understand your point NP, but considering what you've said in this thread, I have the feeling you haven't embraced a faith before.
When one does, in most of them you adopt a moral set that changes one's point of view about life, therefore, when you say that religion = ideology, you're partially right, which explains why you don't understand how Muslims or any other religion feels offended by your words either being making it sound like a waste of time/nonsense or even doubt the essence of their faith as you once did with somebody who being gay was also Catholic. What would you say to me if I told you I adopted Classical Dheism 10 years ago?[/glow]

You have every right to think classical deism isn't ridiculous (it is) because I don't infringe on the rights of individuals to believe what they want. Damage can believe whatever he wants. But when you try to use your right to believe what you can fundamentally believe as a human right, to take away my right to call it ridiculous, you are the one infringing on my rights. Being offended isn't an excuse. If it were, then no one would have the right to believe anything.

 

[Damage]

Not taking away any of your rights np. Your right you do h have the right to say your opinion and non of this would've happend if you said I find islam islam ridiculous but you said fuck Allah to me theres a big difference.
Anyway i also said some things i should'nt have said. We all make mistakes. Sorry comrade

 

[NOPROBLEM]

Not taken away your right np. Your right you do haar the right to say your opinion and no way all of this happend if you said i Find islam islam ridiculous but you said fuck allah to me theres a big difference as if you dont know

It's the same thing. The language may be less severe but the message is the same. To me, the message or meaning behind words are all that matter. I get the feeling that you are jumping to defend your god because you think that is what you are supposed to do, when at the same time you believe that allah is all powerful and will sentence me to my fate himself. If that is true, why would be need you to be his warrior? It's almost like you don't even need a reason to be offended because your beliefs solve the problem for you. Let's not forget that your belief is essentially inherently saying "fuck you" to me to a far greater extent anyway for which I am not offended. Part of the problem with religions is it's always a one way road with them, you cannot insult them but they can insult you all day and if your religion is in a minority, people act like they are a protected class that cannot be questioned, let alone insulted. I stand by what I said, I stand by your right to believe what you want and I still welcome you to remain here as long as you like as well as discuss your beliefs all you want, but when you change that into a personal attack (like calling my mother a slut) then you are no longer practicing free speech but are committing libel.

 

[Damage]

It's the same thing. The language may be less severe but the message is the same. To me, the message or meaning behind words are all that matter. I get the feeling that you are jumping to defend your god because you think that is what you are supposed to do, when at the same time you believe that allah is all powerful and will sentence me to my fate himself. If that is true, why would be need you to be his warrior? It's almost like you don't even need a reason to be offended because your beliefs solve the problem for you. Let's not forget that your belief is essentially inherently saying "fuck you" to me to a far greater extent anyway for which I am not offended. Part of the problem with religions is it's always a one way road with them, you cannot insult them but they can insult you all day and if your religion is in a minority, people act like they are a protected class that cannot be questioned, let alone insulted. I stand by what I said, I stand by your right to believe what you want and I still welcome you to remain here as long as you like as well as discuss your beliefs all you want, but when you change that into a personal attack (like calling my mother a slut) then you are no longer practicing free speech but are committing libel.

I've never insulted your mother, it was just a example. Anyway i really want to respond to this but we both already made our points. No need to continue this.

 

[SKNeoDio]

No need to continue this.

Agreed.

Threads like this one cannot exist within our forums. That's why, in the past, we have all informally agreed to avoid any kind of religious debates - it is an extremely sensitive matter, in which an individual loses his temper very easily.

A majority of the staff team, including myself, wants this matter terminated. I would simply 'lock' this thread, but staff members could still post on it; therefore, I will move this thread to the trash section, putting an end to this quarrel.

I personally apologize for any inconvenience or offense that might have been caused by this topic.

Thank you for your attention.